Posted by: James Atticus Bowden | April 7, 2009

US Not at War with Islam – Yet

Headline:  “Obama declares US not at war with Islam.”

April 6th, 2009, AP Writer Taopm Raum reports that President B. Hussein Obama said, “We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over so many centuries to shape the world for the better, including my own country,”

If I read this without attribution I would assume it was just another Liberal in the U.S. or about-to-be-dhimmi in Europe or Canada mouthing nonsense.  I’d be concerned if it was a school teacher.  But, since it is actually the President of the United States of America, I take notice.  I don’t take him seriously.  Except for the fact that other people take him seriously and he can put his words into action with more power than any single person on earth.

Islam hasn’t shaped the world for the better.  They preserved some libraries in the Middle Ages for antiquities they didn’t write or follow.  Until they decided around 1250 that no new knowledge could be found since Mohammed died.  So, they stopped learning.  Name one invention from Islamic Civilization since 1250 – other than the suicide bomber belt? 

Name one way Islam made any Christian people they conquered better?

Islam’s influence can’t distinquish a single shaping for the better in the U.S.  Unless the wake up call of 9-11 was a benefit so our armed forces could go out and kill thousands of Islamists.  That’s a good shaping for the betterment of the world.

In the early 1800s the Muslims in North Africa ignored the memo on stopping piracy and slaving.  The War with the Barbary Pirates got the Marines the cool line – “to the shores of Tripoli” in the Marine Hymn.  That was a good shaping.

After the Muslim Turk genocide of Christian Armenians in 1915, the U.S. got a wave of Armenian refugee immigrants.  They and their descendants have shaped America for the better.

That’s it for Islam and the U.S.

The U.S.A – and American Civilization –  was created by Christians and Jews on a Judeo-Christian world view.  Christians and Jews built this country to make it what it is.  Christians and Jews made it a country where it is safe to be a believing Christian and Jew. 

During the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin was asked if Mohammedan (Muslim) could be an American citizen, like it was the most alien possibility there was.  He said, “Yes.”   Indeed, America is a place is where it is safe to be a believing Muslim, as long as you make the correct compromises with Koran, embrace Western Civilization and leave the barbaric civilization you came from – entirely behind. 

 

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Responses

  1. The O goes even farther by declaring that we are not in a war on terror, but merely participating in an overseas contingency operation, like hurricane relief.

    I guess I need to turn in my Global War on Terrorism medal for a HSM. . .

    It seems most accurate to say that we are now engaged in a war against the Constitution. But that conflicts with our oath. That is why the “crisis” is so important requiring special powers.

  2. DryViking: We are in two wars. Read my best op ed. Written in Oct 2001!

    http://www.americancivilization.net/articles/2002-2001/One_Front_Two_Wars.pdf

  3. I have and agree with WW IV and ACW II. In fact, after reading Podhoretz, I gave a presentation on WWIV four years ago to several military audiences and mentioned it when I was interviewed by Brian Kilmead of FoxNews for their morning show a few years back (concerning Afghanistan).
    I was just being sarcastic in my last post. We are losing our civil war and the jury is out on WWIV.

    The problem with our prosecution of WW IV is that they keep trying to fight it like it was WW III.
    For example, the CCDRs are currently launching all sorts of Phase 0 operations designed to attack what they call the “root causes of terrorism”. These operations sound like something out of the 1960s directed at poverty. (all deeply influenced by Rousseau). But poverty is not the cause of Islamic terrorism, Marxist uprisings of WWIII maybe, but not Islamic terrorism of WWIV. These guys are often homegrown, middle class and well educated.
    The roots of this war are not in poverty or class struggle, but in Islam.
    how can we win a war when we don’t even know who or what it is that we are fighting?

    Our strategy seems to be to visit the Europeans and tell them that we are sorry we have been so wrong in history, we don’t mean to demand any support from you and why don’t you let us pay for everything and foot the military bill too, since we admit we are the Great Satan and we have been the greatest threat to liberty and peace in the world.

    Luckily, all that is changing now with the new administration. . .

  4. Islam is a religion, not a civilization. Muslims come from a lot of different civilizations, some more like ours than others. Some were “civilizations” before Islam got to them and influenced Islam more than they were influenced by Islam. The ones that are most alien to us would have been alien even if Islam had never reached them. I daresay Afghani women would be wandering around in burkhas even if they were Scientologists. Ditto the Saudis.

    I posit that a Muslim can be an excellent citizen of the United States without making any more substantial compromises with the Koran than a lot of folks from other religious backgrounds have had to make with their religious texts.

  5. DryViking: As you know there are a strategic, operational and tactical components to the Global War. I liken it to our Indian Wars for its strategic and operational aspects. The tactics are going to vary around the world. The French in Algeria did an outstanding job tactically.

    I’d like to see your presentation. Do you have it in electrons?

    NoVa Scout: Islam is a community – the umma – that has produced a civilization in the Middle East and transformed the Persian Civilization – and others like Indian (Parkistan and Bangladesh as well as India the country), Indonesia, etc. .

    Islam, the religion, is only one component of it. Islam is an identity.

    You haven’t read the Koran or the Haddith or any analysis of the Koran. Have you?

    The primary problem with Muslims as Americans – for them – is that they have to give up on the idea of living under Islam – the Caliphate to be, Dar Al-Islam. Muslims have to agree to not live under Sharia law – which the Koran commands them to do. And, then there are socially awkward parts about not associating with Christians and Jews, etc.

    There is no compromise of faith for a Christian or a Jew to live in the U.S.

  6. Sure, give me an email address to send it to.

    One of the problems is when we shift to a strategic defensive, coupled with an operational defensive and only employ the offensive tactically.
    JAB, we agree on most everything it seems. You just appear more patient with our party than I am.

    NoVA Scout: You couldn’t be more mistaken. The burkhas in Afghanistan or SA have everything to do with Islam. Our culture, or theirs springs from what we believe, hence our liberty is rooted in Christianity and their Sharia is rooted in Islam.
    As we become a post Christian society because fewer and fewer Americans are believing Christians, our laws are beginning to reflect that change in belief. We will not prosper as a result.
    Is 5:20

  7. DV and JAB: There are wannabe zealots who still propound the idea of the Caliphate (Bin Laden is the obvious example), just as there are Christians who long for a theocratic state. I think they are in an ineffectual minority in both faiths.

    Re attitudes toward non-Muslims – I’ve developed some good friendships with Muslims. I suspect that they think my Christianity is a real flaw in my full spiritual development. I have some Catholic friends who think much the same of my heretical Anglicanism.

    Americans have had to give up living under Deuteronomic Law, which, in many of its details, is no more suited to modern times than is Sha’aria. Christianity, particularly as explained by St. Paul, gives us an out, but many of our Jewish brothers in America compromise daily with the strictures of the Bible.

    JAB, I’m no scholar of the matter, but I’ve read the Koran in translation (not word for word, I confess I couldn’t get through it front to back) and a significant amount of commentary on it. (I liked the Book of Mormon better – rollicking good read, that, as religious books go). Exegesis suffers from the same problems that beset the Bible (which I have read word for word on three occasions – I do it every 20 years on rigid schedule). There are disturbing elements which if applied literally here and now would be untenable. Islam, like Christianity, is an ongoing debate among the faithful about the degree of literalism that controls fidelity to the word.

    DV – A notion’s culture shows influences of what we believe spiritually, but the totality of a culture is greater than its religious component. Certainly, the American “culture”, with all its diversity (and, some would say with justification, vulgarity) is more than the prevailing religious beliefs. Most of what I have read and observed indicates to me that Islam took as much from the nature of the cultures where it took hold as it took to them. Indonesia, as a cultural locus, is very different than Saudi Arabia. The same could be said of Christianity, e.g., Spain versus Sweden. I’ll stand by my theory that, in the absence of Islam, the nomads of the Saudi desert or the Afghans (or, to be precise, many of their tribal subgroups – not sure there really is such thing as an Afghan this side of the dog show circuit) would dress, act, and regard moral issues in much the way they interpret Islam to require. I reckon that if you walked down what passed for a street in Afghanistan in the year 500 (CE) you’d find women in burkhas or something much like them. Islam conveniently provided a structure to enforce what seem to most westerners to be very benighted cultural imperatives.

    My conclusion is the same as Franklin’s (see JAB’s post) – that the American system is sufficiently neutral toward religion to accommodate virtually all faiths. It’s one of the things I very much like about this country. I like it so much that I’d be willing to sacrifice everything to protect it. I’ve spent some time in countries, Christian and Muslim, where the governments lack that neutrality. It’s no way to live, believe me, and it’s deadly for even the favored religion. Franco’s Spain comes to mind with disturbing vividness in that regard. When Government touches religion, even with benign intent, it can leave horrible, disfiguring scars.

  8. NoVA Scout:
    I couldn’t disagree with you more. You seem to think that Christianity is on equvilent with Islam. (” just as there are Christians who long for a theocratic state”). That simply is not true. There is no evidence of Christian attempts to establish a theocratic state in our country despite the Left’s attempt to claim the “religious right” is doing that. The movement we have seen over the last few decades called the religious right is a counter attack at leftist attempts to change our culture. Conservatives reacted to the liberal effort to remove not religion, but Christianity from the public square, not from government. This has been portrayed by the left as a right wing attempt to impose religion. Much like they misunderstand that the Crusades were a counter attack against Moslem attempts to subjugate the Christian world.

    Christians and conservatives have not been trying to create a theocracy but prevent the de-Christianizing of our culture which was the root of our liberty.

    Islam, quite simply doesn’t do this. They never have.

  9. See my new post which speaks to the comments in this thread.

  10. NoVA Scout

    The existence of the “secular” Turkish state suggests Islam can only coexist uneasily with freedom of religion.

    I have read about 3/4 of the Koran. That was enough. Suffers from exegesis? There is an awful lot to blame on exegesis. The Koran does not encourage religious tolerance, and Mohamed did not practice it.

    On the other hand, the Old Testament is relatively easy enough to understand once we concede two things.
    1. The Canaanites engage in human sacrifice and various other sickening, outright immoralities.
    2. We have to understand the entire Bible from the point of view of the people who heard it at the time it was written.

    One additional thought on the Bible. The standards we use to judge morality, including the Old Testament, we borrow from our understanding of the Bible.

    Consider the irony. We judge ill the suppose intolerance portrayed in the Old Testament based upon moral standards we derive from the Bible. Nevertheless, it is only because the moral code taught in the Bible is our cultural heritage that we have a moral code that promotes religious tolerance.

    I too agree with Franklin’s assessment of the ability of a Muslim to become American citizen. I just think I have a more realistic assessment of Franklin’s attitude. What are the compromises Franklin thought a Muslim would have to make with the Koran to become a desirable American citizen? You might want to check out the example Benjamin Franklin used to ridicule slavery. See http://18thcenturyreadingroom.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/item-of-the-day-franklin-on-the-slave-trade-17901836/.

    Bottomline. I agree Muslims can LEARN to be decent American citizens, but I don’t know how Muslims reconcile religious toleration with their Islamic beliefs. Since prior experience suggest problems, I think it would be disastrous if a significant percentage of the American population became Muslim in just a few decades. Unfortunately, we have an example, Europe, and Europe is in big trouble.

  11. Perhaps we could get some Muslims to explain how big or small a stretch it is to reconcile their spiritual beliefs with secular governmental obligations. We are probably grossly unqualified to comment with any degree of accuracy.

  12. BTW, Tom, every American needs to “LEARN” to be a decent American citizen. [emphasis yours]

  13. NoVa: But Christians don’t have to give up any of their ideas to be good Americans. The American Creed is based on Judeo-Christian culture and Christian ideas.

  14. JAB: if you get me a link to the American Creed, I’ll read it and get back to you on that. I confess that I haven’t looked at it (in fact, my prior experience with creeds is limited to the Nicene and I didn’t even know there was an American Creed until you just mentioned it – there are huge gaps in my knowledge), but would be surprised if it has much theology in it. I concede that, while being a Christian is very difficult, a task in which my own failures are numerous, being a Christian in America sure beats the heck out of being a Christian in most other parts of the world.


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